40 comments

  • safehuss 1 day ago
    Anything that makes email development easier is great I guess, but have personally found MJML great for solving the issues you'd run into, and not sure I want yet another abstraction layer on top of that which makes it more limited...
    • seer 15 hours ago
      They address this in the docs - it is meant to make authoring the content easier for LLMs since that is easy for them to write.

      It still uses MJML for the actual templates, but it is a translation layer between markdown and the template itself.

      If you need to author a lot of emails with LLM this does seem like it would be a great fit.

      • safehuss 10 hours ago
        If the goal is to write emails purely using AI, then it is trivial to attach the MJML documentation as context to your LLM using context7 MCP or something of the sort. It's not a very complex language and its documentation is not large at all.

        That's assuming the crawlers haven't ingested it all already...

        • vanillameow 15 hours ago
          If you need to author a lot of emails with LLM you should be rethinking your business strategy tbh
        • devnotes77 9 hours ago
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        • bpev 13 hours ago
          I'm never seen the `::: header` or `![Logo](https://...logo.png){width="200"}` kind of syntax before. Is this custom or Frankenstein solution? Or is there some kind of md-extended pattern for defining components that has been gaining steam or smthn? Markdown tooling is always confusing, since everyone has their own standard.
        • Kwpolska 1 day ago
          This appears to be a MJML wrapper with a Markdown→HTML converter attached to it. I think generating HTML from code is easier than generating Markdown, since there are many templating tools that understand HTML escaping. And writing HTML is not that hard, especially for your typical emails, so I'm not really sure if this library would be helpful in the long run.
          • dallen33 1 day ago
            I like the idea of this tool, as writing Markdown for some people is probably easier than HTML. I mean, use whatever floats your boat. I like that this exists.
            • j45 1 day ago
              Also a way to use fewer standards for storage of input and created text.
            • joshmoody24 4 hours ago
              Writing HTML for emails is a lot harder than you're making it sound. But MJML does a good job of simplifying it for most use cases.
            • deknos 15 hours ago
              i never understood why the markdown mime type was not used in emailclients in webclients or desktop programs...

              that would eliminate most html usage and enable longer texts than 70-85 characters per line.

              • teddyh 9 hours ago
                It’s up to the e-mail client implementors, but I would personally prefer text/enriched, RFC 1896, instead of markdown.
              • ph4rsikal 1 day ago
                Markdown is the secret winner of the AI early years.
                • austinjp 12 hours ago
                  I'm not so sure. It's definitely the de facto standard, but I suspect minimal HTML is better. Just enough tags to add structure and meaning (H1-H6, p, a, em, section for structure including nesting, maybe more). LLMs were trained on a lot of HTML, they're good at processing it. HTML requires more tokens than markdown but I believe it's worth it. I'll find out in a few weeks as I experiment with both.
                  • hatmatrix 1 day ago
                    cries in org-mode
                    • phyzix5761 23 hours ago
                      org-mode is amazing for humans. I, as a real human and not a robot, use it every day.
                      • I feel you on this too.
                      • ossianericson 2 hours ago
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                      • Escapade5160 1 day ago
                        At this point markdown is going to be the foundation of the entire AI web. Someone the other day showed off Markdown as a responsive frontend protocol. Now we've got email. How long until we're writing classes in markdown? We can only abstract this so far before we confuse AI more than help it.
                      • binaryturtle 1 day ago
                        Any "HTML emails" get filtered straight into the spam folder here. I think I'm not part of the target audience here.
                        • Lord_Zero 20 hours ago
                          Is that a thing? Is it safer to use plain text emails?
                          • unmole 15 hours ago
                            > Is that a thing?

                            There must be literally dozens of people who do this.

                            • mghackerlady 15 hours ago
                              Very much so. While a lot of mail clients block images, they can be used to track you. Hell a lot of HTML can be used to track you if you're smart about it
                            • SergeAx 20 hours ago
                              How do you deal with things like "we sent you a one-time code to confirm your login"? Most of those are HTML-formatted today
                              • binaryturtle 12 hours ago
                                I still can check the SPAM folder, if needed.

                                But most SPAMs are HTML, so you'll have a good default last-stage in-client filtering in place in case some SPAM actually makes it through the other setup on the server (greylisting, DNS based filtering lists, policy-based filtering, etc.) :)

                            • I hope .md domains do not become a security hole as Markdown raises in popularity...
                              • brian93512 1 day ago
                                That's a valid concern, especially given the confusion we saw with .zip or .mov TLDs. But from a security engineering perspective, the bigger 'Markdown hole' I worry about is injection. When we render untrusted AI output into HTML for email, the sanitization pipeline becomes critical. I'd be curious to see how this library handles potential XSS vectors during the MD-to-HTML conversion.
                                • This reminds me of the infamous dot zip domain and the security chaos that had followed.
                                • matzalazar 1 day ago
                                  Great project! And if you don't mind a little workaround and some Python scripting, you can turn a regular Obsidian folder into an automatic outbox. Write markdown, drag, drop, and ship.
                                  • dimaberlin 6 hours ago
                                    The real pain in email HTML isn't writing it — it's maintaining it. Markdown at least gives you something a human can edit 6 months later without crying.
                                    • annie511266728 13 hours ago
                                      Feels more like a content layer for LLMs than a replacement for MJML.

                                      In my experience models tend to break HTML layouts pretty easily, while Markdown degrades more gracefully.

                                    • razvan_maftei 20 hours ago
                                      I'm not exactly following as to who this is for - people are going to use email templates instead of writing Markdown emails, and agents can just as easily spit out HTML. Seems like your solution is in search of a problem.
                                      • Barbing 1 day ago
                                        Very nice. I think the kind of folks attracted to this thread might have some thoughts on a workflow I'm interested in.

                                        When I see a news article, I want to be able to click a button on my Mac or iPhone to send the text of the article in the body of the email. Bonus points for rehosting the images from the article. And using a similar font both without carrying over any of the original external dependencies.

                                        Normally it’s good to support the journalist but I cannot in good conscience send a link to elderly folks when this is so much safer.

                                        • johanvts 1 day ago
                                          Use the browser reader mode, select all, right click send email. Is it something like that you want?
                                          • Barbing 20 hours ago
                                            Thank you! Great trick that comes pretty close.
                                            • Ringz 15 hours ago
                                              If only there was a faster way to „select all“!
                                              • Barbing 4 hours ago
                                                (if you’re down to experiment!)

                                                For the next three intriguing articles you see on arbitrary sites, does the select all trick produce an aesthetically pleasing email? Do external dependencies get carried over? Do you spend any time manually removing cruft? Does the formatting leave anything to be desired?

                                                When I do this all manually I can make it look great, and now that we’ve seen we can train computers to make stuff look great, it’s going to be a point of frustration for me until I have the one-click beautiful-article-email button.

                                          • articsputnik 1 day ago
                                            Love everything to Markdownify :) I was just wondering, is there a Neovim/Markdown email client? Potentially using something like this? I love Neomutt, or Newsboat, and other TUIs. It would be great to have something totally on Markdown. Update: I gave it a spin [1] with Go and some of my favorite CLI's.

                                            [1] https://x.com/sspaeti/status/2036539855182627169

                                          • koakuma-chan 1 day ago
                                            I wish people just sent plain text.
                                            • joshmoody24 4 hours ago
                                              I used to think this, but lately I'm getting a lot of plain text marketing emails that are clearly LLMs. Now I dislike plain text emails just as much as HTML ones.
                                              • XCSme 1 day ago
                                                What about images, links? Formatted text like bold or underline?

                                                I also prefer plain text, but in most of my emails I talk about technical stuff, or I send transactional emails that require actions, in which case showing buttons is a much better user experience than plain text.

                                                • I don’t want buttons in my emails.
                                                  • XCSme 1 day ago
                                                    But they are a lot easier to see and click (accessibility, larger hit area).

                                                    You could have a larger text instead of a button, but changing font size is also HTML and not plain-text anymore.

                                                    • antiframe 1 day ago
                                                      Every MUA I've used allows the reader to set a font size, so changing font sizes is 100% a feature of plain-text emails. Then they get the link the size they need to read it correctly and it's absolutely easy to read. This here comment is pain text. Is it hard to read this link:

                                                      http://microsoft.com/

                                                      I don't think so. I certainly didn't have to resort to HTML to make that link readable and clickable.

                                                      • I don’t have problems seeing and clicking normal text, thank you very much. I don’t want buttons on my emails.
                                                        • XCSme 1 day ago
                                                          I think the OP app is meant for creating transactional emails (or bulk-send emails like newsletters).

                                                          Those templates should account for all types of people and accessibility levels (including things like ADHD, where you need a big red button to click, otherwise you get overwhelmed by a block of text).

                                                        • koakuma-chan 1 day ago
                                                          You can just send a link, and the user's client will probably highlight it even if it is plain text.
                                                          • Yea, but how will they hide all the tracking URLs and base64 encoded PII from you in the email?
                                                            • koakuma-chan 1 day ago
                                                              Using a URL shortener obviously. But you are right, if they only send plain text, they won't be able to include those 1x1 images at the bottom to track whether you have opened the email. Any sane email client blocks images by default, but whatever.
                                                      • lproven 12 hours ago
                                                        > What about images, links? Formatted text like bold or underline?

                                                        Easy. Don't.

                                                        That's the great bit. You don't have to.

                                                        https://useplaintext.email/

                                                        • XCSme 12 hours ago
                                                          Why isn't this website plain text then?
                                                          • einr 11 hours ago
                                                            Probably because it's a website and not email.
                                                            • XCSme 11 hours ago
                                                              But I have to send the same sort of information (albeit shorter) via email on a regular basis.

                                                              A lot of alerts, reporting, quotes, code snippets, short documentation or step by step instructions, etc.

                                                              I don't just send emails to say "Hey, let's meet at 5". You know the memes with "this could have been an email", it usually is this case.

                                                              Just to be clear, most of those rich emails are the automatic/transactional emails.

                                                              • einr 10 hours ago
                                                                Yeah, I get it, I unfortunately live in the real world too. I like to keep it plain text whenever possible but it's extremely useful sometimes to have inline screenshots and stuff like that.

                                                                I didn't mean to be sarcastic but it's just that to me, philosophically, email is a plaintext technology that had HTML bolted on to it kicking and screaming, and it's always been kind of crap. People like me hate things that are fundamentally ugly and crap even if they are useful. The web was designed for HTML from the start.

                                                      • ape4 1 day ago
                                                        Yeah, the first example on that site doesn't need any formatting. It just says your code is <code>
                                                        • linhns 1 day ago
                                                          A picture is worth a thousand words.
                                                          • nailer 1 day ago
                                                            I don't. Plain text is typically formatted for 72-78 monospace characters - even if you don't want formatting, the text will look bad on any device that doesn't match IBM's 80-character punch cards from 1928.
                                                            • Avamander 1 day ago
                                                              In theory format=flowed solves that, but the same boomers that despise HTML mail also refuse to provide that accommodation, for anyone not behind a teletype.
                                                            • pembrook 1 day ago
                                                              Plain text? Pffft.

                                                              Human language is an unnecessary abstraction, just like images.

                                                              I wish everyone would communicate in pure Binary.

                                                            • lexro_ai 12 hours ago
                                                              Nice. Markdown-to-email is one of those things that sounds simple until you actually try it and Outlook destroys everything. Curious how you're handling nested lists — that's usually where things fall apart. Does it degrade gracefully or just break?
                                                              • dancablam 6 hours ago
                                                                It uses MJML under the hood to ensure email-safe HTML is generated. That should prevent many edge cases where failures can happen - but I'm sure there are some skeletons we'll have to find / fix.
                                                              • rbbydotdev 1 day ago
                                                                Nice usage of admonitions. This is a great example of how eloquent markdown can be. Still very readable while even including the markup for 'footer' and the call out code.
                                                                • runtype 1 day ago
                                                                  Would love to use this - any plans for Cloudflare Workers support? Some of the node APIs you're using block it from working on Cloudflare right now.
                                                                  • dancablam 18 hours ago
                                                                    Added support for cloudflare workers in 0.1.2. Thanks for the tip!
                                                                  • dancablam 22 hours ago
                                                                    Good idea. I'll look into this.
                                                                  • vindin 20 hours ago
                                                                    This problem was solved almost 15 years ago
                                                                    • Igor_Wiwi 1 day ago
                                                                      I am working on smth similar markdown reader for humans, not agents - https://mdview.io
                                                                      • pembrook 1 day ago
                                                                        I like how you aren't hiding the fact this is MJML under the hood and don't layer complex abstractions over MJML spec like similar projects (cough react email cough).

                                                                        The devs maintaining MJML deserve so much credit for dealing with Gmail/Outlook's monopoly bullshit and 2007 html.

                                                                        Nice idea for those who manage content in markdown. I've moved away from putting emails in my codebase, but seems great for founders moving fast.

                                                                        • r1290 19 hours ago
                                                                          What’s your opinion on react email?
                                                                          • pembrook 11 hours ago
                                                                            Mostly fluff/hype. Not a value-add over just using raw MJML (which has nice VScode plugins for live previews), and in fact a long term risk to add to a codebase since react-email is just a marketing play by Resend (a startup) and will not be maintained as diligently as MJML.

                                                                            Also, LLMs know MJML really well.

                                                                            • joshmoody24 4 hours ago
                                                                              This is my experience as well. MJML is the older, more reliable, better documented technology. And when it comes to debugging email rendering, you really, REALLY want as much documentation as possible.
                                                                          • dancablam 1 day ago
                                                                            Thanks! I agree - the MJML team has laid so much groundwork and it frankly made this project possible.
                                                                          • ksajadi 16 hours ago
                                                                            This is great! I’d love to see this supported in SendOps!
                                                                            • josegonzalez 1 day ago
                                                                              This plus a block-based editor like editorjs would be a great addition to any custom cms.
                                                                              • gojomo 1 day ago
                                                                                Which email client will stylize raw markdown itself, making the HTML step here superfluous?
                                                                                • johanvts 17 hours ago
                                                                                  Emacs ofc :) seriously it should not be too much work although org-mode syntax would be even easier, there is a markdown mode here: https://jblevins.org/projects/markdown-mode/ The email part is not something i have done myself but it has been a feature for a very long time and you can find plenty of guides online.
                                                                                  • Avamander 1 day ago
                                                                                    It would first require a standard for Markdown. After that there would be very little stopping anyone from implementing it. I guess a MIME type for standard Markdown would also be nice.

                                                                                    Pretty sure I've said it before, but it would be a nice middle ground between text and all the complexity HTML+CSS brings in (if you want to compete with other HTML clients).

                                                                                    • SoftTalker 17 hours ago
                                                                                      The idea of Markdown was that it was supposed to be readable in plain text without any stylizing.
                                                                                  • mghackerlady 15 hours ago
                                                                                    Or, hear me out. Just send the markdown and skip the HTML bullshit. Any mail client will render markdown fine and the ones that don't either aren't worth using or don't want HTML mail in the first place. HTML email is the worst thing to ever happen to the internet
                                                                                    • Lord_Zero 20 hours ago
                                                                                      Does anyone use MJML in golang? What package are you using?
                                                                                      • deanputney 1 day ago
                                                                                        Curious why the CLI function is `mvd` instead of `mdv`?
                                                                                      • KhushaliT 1 day ago
                                                                                        templates are cool but seems too heavy to land in primary inbox
                                                                                        • joshmoody24 4 hours ago
                                                                                          What do you mean by "too heavy"? File size?
                                                                                        • AlphaTheGoat 6 hours ago
                                                                                          Good luck with the adoption of markdown to email html. That's the greatest challenge.
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                                                                                                          • alfanick 1 day ago
                                                                                                            "Write markdown. Ship emails." - I see a particular group of people interested in this, but they have their tools already.
                                                                                                            • I think you should probably let that group of people speak for themselves.

                                                                                                              I'm in this "group" and see an immediate usefulness of this over what I'm doing now.